Author Topic: ARCHIVE: Alternative source of engine parts  (Read 8207 times)

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rokbebop

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ARCHIVE: Alternative source of engine parts
« on: September 24, 2010, 10:03:11 PM »
For anyone who doesnt know, when you want engine parts, these little guys (4cyl Charades and Aplauses) are are your best friends. They were quite popular amongst grannies here in Australia. I have never seen one make it past 200\'000 clicks cuz no one loves them....

And becuase its AFL Grand final day, I will make an obvious joke...



Hes hit the post!!!:lol:

I harvested a new dizzy for $30 bucks! :lol:

malodin

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 02:17:38 PM »
yah thats great in australia but here in the states the charades are just a little more available than the rocky\'s lol

tOnKaTrAcKeR

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 03:33:12 PM »
remember guys that the Charade in the US did not get the same engine as the Rocky, we only got the 1.0l 3-cyl and the 1.3l 4-cyl (I would not be surprised if some of the parts interchanged between the 1.3 and the 1.6)

malodin

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 09:49:21 AM »
the 1.3/1.6 is basically the same block and alot of other stuff(i dont know exactly what cause in all my years i have never actually seen under the hood of a charade) lol

tOnKaTrAcKeR

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 09:01:22 PM »
malodin wrote:
Quote
the 1.3/1.6 is basically the same block and alot of other stuff(i dont know exactly what cause in all my years i have never actually seen under the hood of a charade) lol



I know that in the Suzukis the 1.6l in the Sidekick/Tracker is the same (block-wise) as the 1.3l that came in the Samurai/SJ413, Just bored over to 1.6 (1594 actually)

Is it the same with Daihatsu?


on a side note, I am surprised we don\'t see more Charades as there were 44,000 sold here (as opposed to the 6000 Rockys sold )

Offline djcommie

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2010, 06:14:18 PM »
I run a combined Rocky/Charade engine in a racing Charade, as well as owning a Rocky and 2 other Charades. They are VERY similar, only having a few real differences. I run a 200K mile Rocky 1.6L with a 1.3L Charade cam and the 7500RPM Charade ECU with Rocky injectors.

Similarities :
fuel rail+regulator
cylinder head+headgasket
connecting rods
entire ignition system (from coil to plugs is all the same except for dist. cap)
timing belt tensioner
oil pump
front&rear main seals
engine bearings

Differences (and how)
block (10mm taller deck)
crank (~12mm longer stroke)
pistons (4mm taller crown)
camshaft (crappy junk for the Rocky)
injectors (larger in Rocky)
throttle body (larger for Rocky)
Intake manifold(larger for Rocky)
oil pickup and pan (front on rocky rear on charade)

Rocky is 87.2mm stroke over the 71.2mm stroke of the Charade. Bother are 76.2mm bore. You could put Rocky pistons in a Charade for 13:1 compression ratio, or Charade pistons in a rocky for 7:1CR. You could probably make a 1.5L out of a 1.6L block and 1.3 crank and the 1.6L pistons who knows.
1992 Daihatsu Rocky SE
1989 Charade CLS 24 Hours of LeMons Class Winner
1988 Charade CLS 1.0L parts car
1989 Charade CLS daily driver

rokbebop

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2010, 07:15:28 PM »
WOW, that was a solid post, im happy i started this thread now

so when you say \'block (10mm taller deck)\' you mean the the rocky has a 10mm higher deck?

Why is the Rocky Cam Junk?

I heard someone say that you can take the dizzy and computer out of a charade and have electronic advance instead of vaccum advance?

PugDad

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2010, 08:32:33 PM »
djcommie, I saw your blue Rocky, with a new driver seat.  What did that come out of?

Offline djcommie

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2010, 10:17:28 PM »
PugDad wrote:
Quote
djcommie, I saw your blue Rocky, with a new driver seat.  What did that come out of?


I think its an SX-trim seat. Velour!

rokbebop wrote:
Quote
WOW, that was a solid post, im happy i started this thread now

so when you say \'block (10mm taller deck)\' you mean the the rocky has a 10mm higher deck?

Why is the Rocky Cam Junk?

I heard someone say that you can take the dizzy and computer out of a charade and have electronic advance instead of vaccum advance?


Well...
The block itself is physically taller (hence a longer cylinder height), as far as I can tell all the dimensions of the accessories on the front is exactly the same, the extra space is above the highest water pump bolt.

Well the USA G102 Charades (the ones with the HC-E) have the same distributor as the Rocky, having vacuum advance (manifold and ported) and centrifugal weights. the ECU works the same except the charade has a higher rev-limit.

The G200 HC/HD/HE engines I think have ECU controlled timing, no vacuum or centrifugal junk.

The Rocky cam is as mild as they come, my Rocky engine\'d Charade pickup a serious amount of power from the Charade cam, and it just fits right into the head as the are the same between the F300/G102. It\'d be easy to do when servicing the timing belt.


Another interesting thing is that a Charade water pump fits, but requires a charade water pump pulley. I run the 1.3 water pump on the race car and the larger pulley gives me a really nice underdrive with no added heat problems.

I also love posting this picture:


Doesn\'t look like a Rocky engine, does it? :P
1992 Daihatsu Rocky SE
1989 Charade CLS 24 Hours of LeMons Class Winner
1988 Charade CLS 1.0L parts car
1989 Charade CLS daily driver

rokbebop

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 02:47:13 AM »
so basically the 1.3L engine has an aggressive camshaft in order milk the maximum amount of guts out of the little 1.3L engine? You can then chuck this into the Feroza and pick up a few more horses. Any idea how much we are talking about?

Do the valve clearances need to be altered?

G200 HC/HD/HE engines come in what spec Charades? Is this the famed Detomaso (DeadTomato) engine? :lol:

Offline djcommie

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 11:00:29 AM »
rokbebop wrote:
Quote
so basically the 1.3L engine has an aggressive camshaft in order milk the maximum amount of guts out of the little 1.3L engine? You can then chuck this into the Feroza and pick up a few more horses. Any idea how much we are talking about?

Do the valve clearances need to be altered?

G200 HC/HD/HE engines come in what spec Charades? Is this the famed Detomaso (DeadTomato) engine? :lol:


The 1.3L doesn\'t have the long stroke (with the same bore) so it can rev much much higher, and therefore has a camshaft allowing that. It flows much better down in the ranges where Rockys pass and accelerate, so its a quite decent upgrade. Valve adjustments are quite easy, and yes you would probably need to back out all the valve adjustment screws on the rockers since the lift is much higher although I suppose the base circle is similar, otherwise you might have problems. I just swapped a complete Charade head onto my Rocky engine, no futzing with the valves or clearances. Power guess? 10hp probably, it\'d go even better with bumping the Rocky up to 5deg BTDC timing and a Genie/MRT header and free-flow exhaust.

The DeTomaso Charade is a G200 with a HD-EG (1.6L) with somewhere around 125hp, using an even more aggressive camshaft than the 1.3L, a large primary unequal length exhaust header (4-2-1), and 10.5.:1 compression.  Revs to 7200RPM, similar to the automatic-equipped Charade models in the US. I imported a DeTomaso Charade header for my race car, and combined with the camshaft gives a seriously large bump in power, I\'d suppose I\'m up in the 115hp range, I\'m a bit of cam and compression short of a true detomaso.
1992 Daihatsu Rocky SE
1989 Charade CLS 24 Hours of LeMons Class Winner
1988 Charade CLS 1.0L parts car
1989 Charade CLS daily driver

monmendoza

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2010, 02:36:03 PM »
just noticed this thread. Seems like a good mod to do as 1.3L charades used to be common here.
DJcommie, do you think this will work for carb fueled ferozas?
Let me see if I get it right? So what do I have to do? Change the camshaft to increase
the RPM? How about the charade head? What will it do?
Thank you very much for the info. :)

Offline djcommie

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2010, 06:21:08 PM »
I don\'t think a HD-C would be different really.

The head is the same between HC and HD engines, just the camshaft is different.
1992 Daihatsu Rocky SE
1989 Charade CLS 24 Hours of LeMons Class Winner
1988 Charade CLS 1.0L parts car
1989 Charade CLS daily driver

rokbebop

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2010, 04:55:02 AM »
Do you think that there would be any chance that you could find out what the valve clearances are supposed to be in one of these 1.3 litre Charades???

My understanding of valve clearances is that they need to be correct. I would shudder to think what would happen if you did this and they were too tight

Someone needs to try this. There is several 1.3 ltre charades at my local u-pullit.

rokbebop

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Re:Alternative source of engine parts
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 05:45:36 AM »
I found \'Haynes data book\' manuals on a file sharing site. Although there is no Haynes service manual, the torrent has a service data summary on pretty much every car ever sold in Britain.

I believe we are talking about Sport-tracks here

EFI 1.6L Rocky / Feroza / Sporty
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40149879/DI5B93C2

The Charade I believe we are talkin\' about.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40150771/DI1E89A8

It says the valve clearances are the same