Author Topic: ARCHIVE: Head Bolts  (Read 13152 times)

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alaskan ogre

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ARCHIVE: Head Bolts
« on: August 09, 2011, 10:19:12 PM »
It is imperative that when you install a new head gasket that you use new bolts. The bolts are like rubber bands, they are designed to stretch a little which is what applies pressure to the head. Applying the proper torque to a head bolt only means that the threads in the block and the bolt are achieving the proper tightness and is only relevant if using new bolts. If the old bolts have lost their ability to hold a specific tension on the head the head gasket life span will decrease significantly.

More:
http://kp-gasket.blogspot.com/2011/02/cylinder-head-gasket-and-bolt.html

Here are the specs for the Daihatsu HDC/HDE Head Bolts that I sent to ARP to see if they could find us some high performance Head Bolts or Studs.

[attachment=1438]ARP_2011-08-09.jpg[/attachment]

ARP got back to me this morning and said that they do NOT have any Head Bolts that match these specs but they do have Studs that will work. Here are the ARP Part Numbers:

Bolt # 1 (8 required) 10mm x 1.5/1.25 x 6.500” part # AM6.500-2LUB $23.76ea

Bolt # 2 (2 required) 10mm x 1.5/1.25 x 4.725” part # AM4.725-2B $10.35ea

These are the only studs I have with the 1.5 thread in the lengths you need and they are made from our ARP2000 which is a higher grade material, 220,000psi.

The part numbers listed are studs only, no nuts or washers. You can but them directly from ARP directly at 800.826.3045 or from any of their Dealers.

http://arp-bolts.com/

I\'m also looking for an alternative since these are pretty expensive at over $200 for a set. If someone wants to help find an alternative source for new bolts that would be fantastic, all help is appreciated.

alaskan ogre

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 02:43:30 AM »
Found a Head Bolt that will replace the shorter bolt, it\'s 2mm longer at 115mm which can be shorted by using a second hardened washer. These Head Bolts are fully threaded and listed to fit:

Volkswagen Beetle Base (    1998 - 1998 )
Volkswagen Beetle TDI (    1998 - 1998 )
Volkswagen Golf GL (    1999 - 2006 )
Volkswagen Golf GL TDI (    2004 - 2004 )
Volkswagen Golf GLS (    1999 - 2006 )
Volkswagen Golf GLS TDI (    2004 - 2004 )
Volkswagen Golf GTI (    1999 - 1999 )
Volkswagen Golf GTI 1.8T (    2002 - 2006 )
Volkswagen Golf GTI 20th Anniversary (    2003 - 2003 )
Volkswagen Golf GTI 337 (    2002 - 2002 )
Volkswagen Golf GTI GLS (    2000 - 2001 )
Volkswagen Golf GTI GLX (    2000 - 2001 )
Volkswagen Golf GTI VR6 (    2002 - 2005 )
Volkswagen Golf R32 (    2004 - 2004 )
Volkswagen Golf TDI (    1999 - 1999 )
Volkswagen Golf Wolfsburg Edition (    1999 - 1999 )

Victor Reinz - Part Numbers W0133-1642519, 1642519

They are about $3.50 each at:
http://www.streetperformance.com/part/victor-reinz/head-bolt-and-stud/3910438-1642519.html

[attachment=1440]hb-short_2011-08-09.jpg[/attachment]

Offline lioncubb

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 03:41:56 PM »
I found these on E-bay Germany, they are a good price I feel, but the only problem is the first 1 doesn\'t ship to the USA,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190559940127&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


[attachment=1442]DaihatsuFerozaheadbolts.jpg[/attachment]


& the 2nd 1 will ship but the shipping is almost 200 Euro, so if you know anyone in that region of the world maybe they could buy them and send them over.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390270757603&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


[attachment=1443]DaihatsuFerozaheadbolts2.jpg[/attachment]
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Offline naturelover

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 06:32:40 PM »
Hi Lion!

I live in Germany, know Off-Road Stracke and have bought parts from them, mainly brake pads for my Feroza front. Their products are good and they are trustworthy. I could look into the price of shipping to the States and send them to you, but I\'d need the shipping funds in advance. You can purchase the things from E-Bay and have them ship the bolts to me and I\'ll forward them on to you or to whoever I\'m supposed to.

I\'ll look into shipping costs to the States with and without insured mail for the products and let you know, but if you choose uninsured, I don\'t want to have to be responsible for the products if something happens in the mail. I think the total weight of all bolts is less than 5oo grams, right? If it really costs some exorbitant amount, like near 200$ as with company no. 2, then I\'d just say forget ordering them through me and get them directly from them (if you so choose.) But I doubt that it\'s anywhere near that expensive.

I won\'t rip you off, don\'t worry, but I will ask 5 Euro (about 7 US$) over and above the shipping costs for my trouble. I think that\'s fair and beats 200$.

Let me know what you think. If you want to go through with it, I\'ll send you my address as private mail and you send me the shipping address, the shipping costs and the 7 $.

Best wishes,
Dennis
DZH

Offline lioncubb

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 10:39:10 PM »
Thanks for that naturelover, I am not in need of the just yet, but when I pull the engine from my SX Rocky I know that I can contact you for help, E-bay Germany also has a perfect caliper re-build kit as well.

Thanks in advance.
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Offline naturelover

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 11:07:52 AM »
No problem, Lion. Just let me know if and when.

Best,
Dennis :laugh:
DZH

Offline djcommie

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 12:04:42 AM »
I don\'t see the factory manual talking about the bolts being torque-to-yield (aka non-reusable), nor mentioning replacement when used. Yield bolts are ususally tightened to final value by torque-angle, whereas normal bolts just use a standard two/three stage tightening process like the Rocky\'s. I\'ve never had an issue reusing the bolts, and its in an engine that spends most of its time around 7000RPM, so if they were loose I\'d probably notice.

Actually the manual mentions reusing the bolts, so I\'m not sure where the confusion is.


I\'m building a turbo 1.6L, so I\'ll be purchasing ARP studs, I\'ll let you know what comes from that.
1992 Daihatsu Rocky SE
1989 Charade CLS 24 Hours of LeMons Class Winner
1988 Charade CLS 1.0L parts car
1989 Charade CLS daily driver

alaskan ogre

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2011, 05:26:37 AM »
It\'s probably no big deal with these little motors since nobody seems to offer new bolts as a kit. We never replaced them in our lawnmower engines either and they made almost as much power.

Mcguire

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2011, 05:57:37 AM »
Wow that\'s a lot for some headbolts if you can reuse them I\'d say go that way.  But I\'ve heard from many engine experts that you should get new ones.   (when I was going to do mine I checked around thankfully their only $30 bucks for Toyota\'s & you cn get them bout anywhere)  I wonder what Daihatsu did differently.

PugDad

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 07:20:16 PM »
Quote from: \"alaskan ogre\" post=2830084
It\'s probably no big deal with these little motors since nobody seems to offer new bolts as a kit. We never replaced them in our lawnmower engines either and they made almost as much power.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Offline djcommie

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 10:55:34 PM »
Quote from: \"Mcguire\" post=2830085
Wow that\'s a lot for some headbolts if you can reuse them I\'d say go that way.  But I\'ve heard from many engine experts that you should get new ones.   (when I was going to do mine I checked around thankfully their only $30 bucks for Toyota\'s & you cn get them bout anywhere)  I wonder what Daihatsu did differently.


The difference is the bolt design, some are designed to be tightened up to their yield point, and others like the Daihatsu ones don\'t have all their elasticity taken out, so are reusable.
1992 Daihatsu Rocky SE
1989 Charade CLS 24 Hours of LeMons Class Winner
1988 Charade CLS 1.0L parts car
1989 Charade CLS daily driver

Offline naturelover

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2011, 11:45:38 AM »
Hi everyone!

Here\'s my 2 cents\' worth! When they repaired my head gasket twice, I\'m sure they didn\'t replace the bolts. My head gasket blew both times afterward - then I got a replacement motor. Now I\'m not saying that the reason why the gasket blew was the bolts, but who knows? If I\'m gonna do such a fairly important and exacting job as fixing the valves or putting in a new gasket, especially with the grinding down of the head, if like Ogre said we should be careful and make sure the bolts and their holes are meticulously clean - then I\'m sure we want to do it right and the bolts (costing 55 Euros here for the whole set) are well worth the investment, considering that we spend hundreds on extractors and other things! What\'s the use of these things if the motor conks out somewhere along the line \'cause we cut corners? :pinch:

By expanding bolts (which we have, right?) some mechanics say not to reuse them at all, others say reuse them only a maximum of one time. Well, I didn\'t know when I bought my Feroza how many times it was done before, so I think in that case - with the benefit of the doubt - that one time is gone over and done with!

A bit more than two cents, over and out.
Dennis
DZH

malodin

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 01:35:14 PM »
Your never supposed to reuse a stretch to yield forque bolt because it cannot hold the proper torque(i found that out on a 3rzfe toyota motor, i have one headbolt that i cant get to torque properly). These rockys are not stretch to yield however so all should be good, its been my experience that when a headgasket goes shortly after a rebuild its do to using an inferior headgasket set(thats how i have gotten all my rockys for cheap).  You should have one of the good sets available in your neck of the woods, they have a siliconized coating and silicone o-rings around all the ports

Alaskan, thats cool you found some arp\'s the dimensions you gave him were they from a fresh head? Not ground or reused bolts? I think the studs he\'s got there are a few other ones that may work but for instance the stud might be a little taller than normal but if your putting a high quality bolt onto the stud it wouldnt matter if the stud is 1/4\" longer or so.  After all this motor is very similar to a toyota 1.6 a block and im pretty sure arp carries them for that(i just got rid of my last 4a so cant verify)

Offline tramguage1

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 02:28:56 AM »
How you doing Alex,
Long time sense you\'re last post.

  Mike
1990 ROCKY
2004 Chevy 4.3, 1993 4L60E trans,
1980 Toyota transfer case, front and rear axles
Lockers front and rear.

malodin

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Re: Head Bolts
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2011, 05:54:46 AM »
Hi mike, yah im still alive just been super busy with re-education...
Still have one rocky, actually trying to sell it.

Working on a 4dr sidekick for my family wheeler almost there